As we have been giving you an insight into the upcoming Yugoslav army a few days ago, here is another one into the second nation being brought to you with the upcoming Double Nation Pack: REDS, Finland.
Therefore, it is due time (ALB-due, according to some 😉 ) to bring the Puolustusvoimat, the Finnish Defence Force (FDF) into the light.
Finnish models are all done, and although we are still working on balancing it, we have already started play-testing Finland as a Wargame nation. By that, we mean that lead game designer Stephan ‘Panzer‘ Hernandez & game designer Félix ‘FLX‘ Habert have been beating the c… out of their unfortunate colleagues (including your humble servant) those previous days, to “test the water” as they say.
According to those experts, Finland’s prima donna will be its “excellent reconnaissance tab“, providing “a wide array of choices, ranging from the very stealthy to the very powerful“. This ‘recon in force’ will be backed up by a strong infantry line-up, “with an emphasis on close quarter” with their trustworthy WW2 Suomi-KP SMG still equipping several units (and not necessarily second-lines ones, like in other nations) and a “large choice of shock troopers & commandos with CQC MG, giving the FDF an uncanny ability at clearing urban areas & woods“. Some kind of Cold War’s wood elves defending their patch of woods, then … 🙂
Another FDF strong suit will be its support tab: even before the Wall fell, Finland had secured import of high-end AA weapon systems from both East & West, granting it a “well furbished & efficient air defense net“. Besides, Finland has always been a major producer (and consummate user itself) of mortars of all shapes & calibers.
The eyes of the army
Finland’s recon tab is a small army by itself, with powerful infantry units, powerful combat vehicles, stealthy and/or very efficient intelligence operator.
True to the FDF tradition or long range recon/raid, its recon infantry will be represented by the all-era Sissi, wielding the famous Suomi-KP SMG, and a late Special Force unit whose name shall strike terror (or at least, confusion) into their enemy’s heart: the Erikoisrajajääkäri. The latter are a 10-man elite recon squad, armed in the SAS/LSTR way, with heavy LAW (APILAS) & MANPAD (Igla), plus a Stallone-approved SMG: the Jatimatic. Both squads are very useful to lay ambush behind enemy lines or hunt & destroy enemy rangers…
With Finland making its (belated) entry into Wargame‘s universe, we have taken the opportunity to introduce a new unit type: bikers. Or, more exactly, ATV riders, since two-wheels wouldn’t be modeled properly. Thus, the FDF Mönkijä will be a very small & very stealthy jeep, but also more fragile!
Finnish Border Guards will also bring their contribution to the recon tab, in the form of patrol helicopters: the antiquated Alouette II and the much more modern JetRanger, the latter being loaded with night & thermal vision, radar equipment,… hence being granted Exceptional optics ingame.
Finally, the Finland fields several combat vehicles for ‘recon in force’: aside from the ubiquitous PT-76B and a more unusual recon BMP-1 TJJ, the FDF can rely on a late uparmored engineer T-55M Pionpsv & a prototype BMP-1KT armed with… a deadly Bushmaster II 30mm autocannon.
The guerilla army
As mentioned before, the Finnish infantry line-up may be regarded as quite strong, with two variants of elite naval commandos (Rannikkojääkäri), several choices of shock armored riflemen (Panssarijääkäri) & Guards light infantry (Kaartinjääkäri), all of them CQC specialists, plus regular riflemen (Jääkäri). Reserve infantry (Nostoväki) will be another novelty in Wargame: being armed with the WW2 iconic Lahti 20mm anti-tank rifle, they were re-rolled after a few tests from militia 10-man rifle squad to… militia 5-man FIST squad.
Lacking an ATGM squad in early games, Finland was thus (notwithstanding the Nostoväki mentioned above) entitled to a FIST squad: it will come in the form of the Raskassinkoryhmä squad’s Musti 95mm RCL. Later, the PstOhj 82M (Konkurs) and the prototype PstOhj 94 (Spike-MR) teams will give the FDF some better anti-tank options.
Finally, Finnish infantry will include the usual command squad and MANPADs (ITO 78 & ITO 86M).
Never without my mortar!
The Finnish army could be defined by its mortars: it seems like you can’t flip a coin out there without it falling back in the tube of one of those weapons! The Israeli Makmat‘s 160mm heavy mortar actually mounts the Finnish M-66 Soltam. Thus it is only fair for them to field it too (TelaKrH 66), supported by other 82mm & 120mm calibers. The other tube artillery, howitzers, include 122mm PSH 74 (Gvozdika) & 152mm TELAK 91 (2S5 Giatsint-S, a missing Soviet artillery gun so far).
The FDF artillery also field a powerful MLRS choice, with RAKH 76 (BM-21), RAKH 89 (RM-70) & RAKH 91 (BM-27) providing heavy fire support with either HE, napalm or cluster ordnances.
Then we have the air defense … Although lackluster in the early 80’s (Neva, ZSU-57-2 & truck-mounted ZSU-23-2 Sergei), it enjoys a major upgrade in the late 80’s/early 90’s, thanks to import contracts secured with both the West & the USSR: ITO 96 (Buk-M) & ITO 90 (improved Crotale NG launcher mounted on a XA-185 chassis) for SAMs ; ITPSV Marksman (improved Marksman turret on T-55 chassis) & the evilly sly Sergei Mod for SPAAGs. The latter, although still looking like a mere truck-mounted ZSU-23-2, should not be taken lightly: being the most expensive upgrade ever for such a weapon system, it transforms this little gun truck into a formidable killer! Still very fragile, this little spider leaves no chance to a chopper entering its web, and even planes have learned to fear it.
Hell on wheels
Finland’s vehicle tab will include a wide array of wheeled vehicle choice. As Sisu Pasi‘s home country, it was to be expected that the XA-180 APC is very widely represented in the FDF, in many roles: APC (XA-180, XA-185, …), IFV (XA-185KRKK with AGS-17, prototype XA-185KT with Bushmaster II), SAM (ITO 90), ATGM carrier (Pstpsajon), command,…
Unlike Yugoslavia, Finland’s motorized deck might prove very powerful, with a more lackluster mechanized one (ATGM-less BMP-1 & BMP-2).
Regarding tanks, Finland doesn’t have as many than other country, but they are reliable T-55 & T-72, locally upgraded. FLX refers to them as “glass cannons“, with pretty good accuracy and AP but less “heavy” ones than other nations. Yet, the FDF can count on the prototype major upgrade T-72M1MOD, which could be regarded as the illegitimate son of a T-80U & Leclerc.
Plus… they had StuG III, named Sturmi, in their inventory up to the mid-70! 🙂
Achille’s Heel
FDF has some very powerful assets (infantry, recon, …) but suffer from some handicaps: being bound by the 1947 Treaty of Paris, it is forbidden to own AGM missiles or cluster ordnances for its planes. Nor does the FAF have SEAD missiles at its disposal. Yet, the FAF doesn’t lack in bombers and air superiority fighters.
Another bad spot of the Finnish inventory lies with its choppers. Although it owns some late HH-10 (TOW Defender), most of the (few) FDF gunship are Mi-8 hastily rigged with planes’ rocket launchers or cannon pods.
To conclude, from our tests the FDF has been several times compared to a “REDFOR France“, with an emphasis on highly mobile wheeled vehicles, good infantry & glass cannons (by REDFOR standard: we’re talking T-72 glass cannons here, not AMX-30!).
Previews on Twitch next week!
FLX & Alexis will be on Twitch next week to showcase the news armies :
-Monday 21st: FINLAND
-Thursday 24th: YUGOSLAVIA
We’ll be live at 12PM EDT / 9AM PDT / 6PM CEST (check your timezone here!). Follow us now!
Greyhound
November 17, 2016 at 5:21 pmAny changes to grenade launchers please?
F.C.I.W.G
November 17, 2016 at 5:35 pmI hope that the names are going to be corrected because many of them are wrong. The “Novostäki” for example. It probably should be Nostoväki.
Archduke_Franz
November 17, 2016 at 5:47 pmAny chance Cuba [a country that actually fought during the Cold War] will be added?
IFP
November 17, 2016 at 9:50 pmThat would be awesome. They add a rather neutral Yugoslavia and not Cuba that sided with USSR, right? 😛
Niko Virta
November 17, 2016 at 10:37 pmwell, both yugo and finland are neutral so there’s logig there somewhere…
Archduke_Franz
November 18, 2016 at 6:55 pmSadly the developers seem to be focusing only on appeasing their European customers. I’m not against them adding more European nations, but it is important to understand the majority of them played an insignificant role during the Cold War. They didn’t even fire a shot. On the other hand, nations like Cuba [Latin America] and Vietnam [Asia] did play a very significant role during this time period. Thousands of Cuban forces fought in Africa [Angola & Ethiopia]. How many countries currently in Wargame: Red Dragon actually deployed forces in significant numbers overseas during this time period? Not many [basically, only the USA and USSR]. EUGEN…PLEASE consider adding Cuba. Thank you.
Vanguard77
November 19, 2016 at 10:01 am!? UK, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand all deployed in multiple theaters around the world….more than Cuba….
Xeno
November 19, 2016 at 7:40 pmProblem is, Cuba and Vietnam had basically copy-paste militaries that lacked modern equipment. There would be no purpose to buy or use them. Meanwhile, Yugoslavia, Israel, Finland, and the Netherlands all had/have unique and modern equipment.
The Finn
November 17, 2016 at 6:08 pmSounds awesome! As a native Finn, I can help you with the proper Finnish names for the troops, as you have made quite a few translation errors.
Please find the corrected translations below:
Mönkijää -> Mönkijä
Kaartijääkäri -> Kaartinjääkäri
Novostäki -> Nostoväki
[EUG]MadMat
November 17, 2016 at 6:48 pmBe assured they are already right ingame.
We may have overestimate our ability to write from memory the very few names which sound understandable to us … 🙂
They have been fixed in the article too. Thanks.
Alan
November 17, 2016 at 6:31 pmany chance of some blackwatch or another famous unit for nato?
us jocks need something 😀
[EUG]MadMat
November 17, 2016 at 9:22 pmWe’re making a Cold War game, not Napoleonic. 😉
Alan
November 17, 2016 at 11:56 pmi hope that’s a joke
Philippe Tricot
November 18, 2016 at 4:04 amThere was 2 regiments during the cold war called “Blackwatch”, one from the UK and one from Canada… -_-
Hannu Laakko
November 17, 2016 at 6:34 pmReserve infantry is “nostoväki”, not “novostäki”. Also the raskassinkoryhmä has Musti anti tank weapon not Müsti.
MeemiMestari
November 17, 2016 at 6:35 pmIts Nostoväki, not “novostäki” 🙂
Tommy
November 17, 2016 at 7:11 pmPlease note that Finland uses 81 mm mortars, not 82 mm 😉
Pekka Pohjola
November 17, 2016 at 7:13 pmJatimatic for erikoisrajajääkäri? Really?
Niko Virta
November 17, 2016 at 10:39 pmshush, i REALLY want jatimatic to be part of the finnish lineup…
Tatu Karlsson
November 19, 2016 at 10:19 amI think rk-62 and a sniper rifle along with a rocket launcher would be the most realistic loadout for the Erikoisrajajääkäri
MPouta
November 17, 2016 at 7:15 pmReserve infantry (Novostäki)?
You have a typo here (consistently), it’s “nostoväki”, meaning reservists. Kinda like Yegibun for S-Korea. Also I find it a bit amusing I’m apparently trained in shock troop tactics but hey, I’ll take it. Can’t wait for this deck to roll out!
Flim
November 17, 2016 at 8:13 pmLooking very good! The FDF definitely adds a new dynamic to the game. Can’t wait! 😉
adix
November 17, 2016 at 8:34 pmNice and realistic..Airforce have some MIG 21, J 35 DRAKEN and CM 170 MAGISTER’s in inventory?
[EUG]MadMat
November 17, 2016 at 8:40 pmIt has. Mixing Western & Eastern planes in a single air force was one of the major reason to make Finland.
That, and of course introducing the Fouga Magister of glorious French design! 😉
adix
November 17, 2016 at 8:54 pmGood idea regarding mixing the technologies!A lot of thanks for this new basic improvement of the game.Just waiting the release.
MPouta
November 17, 2016 at 9:43 pmI approve of this message! As with the planes, this was why making an impromptu Finnish deck was downright impossible before because you couldn’t get Pasis and BMP-1s in the same deck.
One comment, though: you say
“ATGM-less BMP-1 & BMP-2”
but in fact the Finnish BMP-1s (I should know) at least came equipped with PstOhj 82M (Konkurs). They were just very rarely used because those things were pretty expensive, but the fact remains they could be equipped.
[EUG]MadMat
November 17, 2016 at 10:09 pmThe recon variants will have it, not the regular transports, to represent the fact that they were indeed rarely mounted.
Tommi
November 17, 2016 at 11:43 pmRarely mounted only at the peace time, there are a lot of weapons and vehicles stashed on all kind warehouses and underground bunkers and so on all over Finland.
In case of an attack, weapons are taken out and mounted and quick training is given to operators.
There are full underground bunkers things full of fighters, tanks, mines etc etc.
Everything is designed and distributed for a Sissi combat to prolonged war all around the country against anyone, not just Soviets.
The normal variants would have them at war time, but not at peace time.
Tommi
November 17, 2016 at 11:36 pmI think that after 1962 the special forces should use RK62 (Rynnäkkö Kivääri 1962, direct from Assault Rifle 62) as even at 60’s usual infantry squads (10 men) used “Pystykorva” rifles and had two those Suomi-KP SMG per squad and one Russian PKM as machine gun per squad or instead PKM a one finnish made “KvKK62” what is “Kevyt KoneKivääri 1962” that uses same caliber as RK62 and is crazy fast and light.
And each squad as well got since 1985 a sniper per squad carrying a “Tkiv85” (“TarkkuusKivääri 1985” / sniper rifle 1985).
And one special forces would be nice to see, “SotilasPoliisi” aka “SP” what is “Military Police” that is specialised to operations inside country lines, behind the defence lines to defend and protect important urban areas against enemy special forces infiltration and sabotage. SP ain’t frontline units but as capable for that as well, but mainly responsible for special defensive actions (would be great to have and give a best CQC capabilities to defend against any other threat). No, they don’t just go pickup drunk soldiers from bars etc.
So while normal Jägers work everywhere, special jägers work either in assaults, recon or in defense. Just like Kaartinjääkärit has specialized to urban combat in assault as defences, the SP is for defensive as hostage situations and such inside country.
Sad part is that WG cant cover 2003 when Finland made deal to buy Leopard 2A4 tanks. Would have been great as special small batch for some games but better this way.
Herbyone
November 18, 2016 at 12:10 amQuite as expected except no AMOS?
Mikael Laine
November 18, 2016 at 2:05 amWhy REDS?!
Finland was never a part of the USSR and its only Cold-War time enemy was soviet Russia, which it fought in WW II, alongside Germany.
It would be more realistic if Finland was BLUE.
[EUG]MadMat
November 18, 2016 at 9:29 amWell, we are not considering Finland as part of the USSR, but as part of REDFOR.
Remember this is a game about the Cold War, not WW2. Nor present days.
For the duration of the Cold War, Finland was bound by the 1947 Treaty of Paris, which gave USSR great influence and leverage over Finland’s every foreign policy’s decisions.
Now, we have answered the question “why RED?” many times, but to sum up again:
1.) Because the Western countries pretty much considered Finland to be a part of the Soviet camp:
2.) Because historically Finland was within hair’s breath away from becoming an active member of the WP together with the Soviets.
3.) And because Finland had extensive contacts with the Soviet military and a treaty of mutual military assistance with them (or with Poland, for ex.)
And, gameplay wise, because Finland has a lot more to offer for REFOR than BLUFOR.
Mikael Laine
November 21, 2016 at 6:02 pmYou misunderstand history badly. Its true there was a degree of agreement on paper, but that does not change the fact that Finland never had any other geopolitical enemy but Russia, not for a thousand years!
Any war preparation during the cold war in Finland was in preparation of a Russian invasion. In that sense Finland always belonged tightly in the BLUFOR/west. There was a secret agreement that Sweden would provide more Drakens in case of war, for example.
There is no realistic scenario in which Finland would have been pitted against western units, as is now the case in this DLC.
As for gameplay, it would have been much more interesting to see how the REDFOR units would work against each other.
Perhaps introduce the NEUTRAL faction that can be on either side?
vveyro
November 21, 2016 at 11:09 pmAgree, very badly. It’s completely ridiculous from Finns perspective. All our army ever existed, trained or prepared for in last 100 years, was to counter Russian invasion. In 1980’s people had deep hatred and fear of Russia, youth listened to American music, watched American movies and wanted to be Americans, in essence. Attitudes towards Russia only started to get better after Soviet Union collapsed. Developer has poor understanding of Finland’s history, they can’t even pronounce the unit names (which were still full of typos in Twitch stream) and put some joke-of-a-gun as Jatimatic into the game so doesn’t surprise me.
“Because the Western countries pretty much considered Finland to be a part of the Soviet camp”. Everyone considers French to be famous for waving the white flag? What outsiders think, and what you really are is two different things. What you say you would do on a treaty paper, and what you really would do, is another two things.
vveyro
November 21, 2016 at 11:22 pmFinland has a very well known common saying, “Ryssiä” which means “Do it like Russians” which means “Fuck it up”. You really managed to “ryssiä” this. While I’m intrigued by my country being in the game, I’m also appalled at your poor interpretation of history.
Mikael Laine
November 22, 2016 at 5:21 pmReally Finland was just as BLUFOR as Sweden. Both were neutral countries that did everything they could to stay free of the red menace and war as well.
dapolek
December 23, 2016 at 2:19 amadd Italy and turkey please.
vveyro
November 21, 2016 at 8:38 amConsidering Erikoisrajajääkärit will use Jatimatic, realism doesn’t seem to be huge deal for Eugen. FDF had 5 Jatimatics for test use in 1996, and it was difficult to aim with because no sights and tilted barrel structure, bad overall quality, too complicated and slow to reload in combat, shell casing came out twisted into curved shape, if snow went into the gun it fired twice as fast (1500rpm). So military didn’t even consider the gun despite it being Finnish make, because it was crap. It only was ever good enough for movie prop, not FDF. Erikoisrajajääkärit would use Rk-62 which is basically a Finnish made improved version of Kalashnikov.
Hello !
November 18, 2016 at 3:01 amI asked Eugen about Cuba by mail (in France because I’m and they are french) and they said Cuba is not “so great to design because they have nothing different in equipement to USSR and funny spanish voices is not enought to make a pack” !!! :-((( AS EVERYBODY HERE IN THE FORUM I ASK FOR A GREAT CUBAN ARMY PATCH WITH AWSOME COMMANDOS (and troops experts as they send in Africa during cold war – Command units and superior CV could be an axis for the cuban patch) WE DON’T CARE ABOUT CUBAN EQUIPEMENT DESIGN WE ARE ALSO HERE JUST TO PLAY AND HAVE FUN ! PLAY WITH GREAT CUBAN ARMY AGAINST USA PLAYERS IS A SUPERIOR SATISFACTION BY ITSELF !
***
AS EVERYBODY HERE I ALSO AGREE : FINLAND NEVER WAS IN VARSAW PACT AND WAS ASSIMILATED IN THE “FREE WORLD” EVEN IF THEY WERE NEUTRAL LIKE SWISS/AUSTRIA/SWEDEN ETC. THEY NEVER WAS COMMUNIST THEY NEVER WAS BEHIND IRON CURTAIN AND THEY FIGHT AGAINST USSR IN WW2 WITH SUCCESS. FINLAND IS A BLUE PACK NATION NOT A RED NATION.
***
I asked Eugen about SOUTH AFRICA a great weapon designer they said “nobody asked for it but yes S.AFRICA would be a great nation pack” SO DON’T WAIT FOR A VOTE ! IF IT’S A GREAT PACK JUST DO IT DAMN IT !!!
***
PLEASE EUGEN STOP BEING FROZEN BY GEEK TECHNICAL WEAPON POLITICAL PROBLEMS WE JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN WITH FUN PACKS ! CHARISM IS ENOUGH FOR A NATION TO HAVE HIS OWN PACK WE DON’T REALLY CARE ABOUT EQUIPEMENT IF THE NATION PACK ROCKS BY ITSELF !!! DON’T FORGET THE FUN : IT’S A GAME !
***
GO EUGEN GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ! MAKE PACKS :
– IRAK (BLUE NEUTRAL trough France)
– IRAN (RED NEUTRAL)
– VIETNAM (RED)
– TURKEY (NATO)
– PAKISTAN (NATO)
– INDIA (NEUTRAL RED)
– ETHIOPIA (RED)
– KENYA (NEUTRAL – SUPERBS SPECIAL FORCES TO SOMALIA)
– TCHAD (BLUE NEUTRAL – SUPERBS SHOCK TROOPS)
– COLUMBIA (BLUE)
– COLUMBIA REBELS (RED trough CUBA)
– CUBA (RED)
– ARGENTINA (NEUTRAL AGAINST UK)
– ETC …
GO GO GO WE DON’T GIVE A F U CK ABOUT IF THEY HAVE THEIR OWN EQUIPEMENT THEY ROCKS AND WE WANT TO PLAY WITH THEM TO HAVE FUN !!!!
[EUG]MadMat
November 18, 2016 at 9:34 amDon’t misunderstand me: I’d like Cuba to be included, but your mail was mostly asking to include them because it would be cool to have Spanish voices. I’m afraid that fact alone doesn’t make a DLC viable … 🙂
We are well aware that Cuba has some cool toys to offer, yet it isn’t the most obvious choice, for some missing European countries would be make more sense, especially to form coalition.
Nando
November 19, 2016 at 9:45 pmIn fact, we expect that the next nation is Italy for 3 reasons:
1) was passed immediately after Yugoslavia and Finland
2) it has many original units and vehicles
3) complete the European framework
Matthew Warren
November 18, 2016 at 4:33 amI am not sure if you can answer this, or if you’d even want to. But if the sale of these extra nation packs are profitable enough, would Eugene consider adding more nations.
I ask solely as while the community is a little smaller from when the game first came out, it hasn’t decreased by a substantial margin over the years. At least not to through my eyes.
These additions are really great, and frankly if you can turn them out every 3-6 months…. just wondering if its iron clad that this will be the last content addition.
Game is fantastic by the way, you guys are doing a great job. It’s pretty much impossible to make things PERFECTLY balanced, but when was any real fight fair. I can’t wait for the release of your new content. All the best.
Casey
November 18, 2016 at 7:39 amI’m totally unfamiliar with both Finnish and Yugoslavian equipment so this is super rad to have. Glad to have two whole new REDFOR nations. Excited for the quad-bike recon and the anti-materiel rifle.
I appreciate y’all continuing to support Wargame over the years. Easily one of my favorite games and the Dutch and Israeli additions really brought me and my friends back into it. Can’t wait for the Finns and Yugos!
Ikeeplosing
November 18, 2016 at 9:50 amHow much will it cost?
adix
November 18, 2016 at 12:41 pmIs there a F 18 in the picture?
Will be in FAF? That would be really great
Molekyylitatti
November 18, 2016 at 8:32 pmShould be since FDF uses F/A-18C’s
adix
November 18, 2016 at 9:42 pmYes, since 1995 if I know well….and , in the game , the military equipment is till 1996, if I remember properly…so, good chance to be there and a welcome real mix Est-West tech on airforce….Mig 21 and maybe some older MIG s near CM 170, J 35 DRAKEN and F 18….sounds very-very nice
Alexandros Alexakos
November 18, 2016 at 1:49 pmADD GREECE AND TURKEY TOO PLEASE DO IT AND I WILL PAY WITH MY HEART I BUY ALL DLCS FROM THE START OF THIS GAME PLEASE EYGEN PLEASE!!!
Murre
November 18, 2016 at 3:24 pmITPSV Marksman also has a Leopard 2 conversion existing. Do you have that as a prototype option?
[EUG]MadMat
November 18, 2016 at 3:52 pmThe Leopard 2 didn’t enter service in our timeframe, hence there’s no reason itself of any Marksman variant be included in the game.
Mikael Laine
November 30, 2016 at 10:30 pmThe marksman was previously on T-55
Celmeo
November 18, 2016 at 7:46 pmWhat countries could Finland coalition with? As a Finnish Chinese, any chance we could have a Finland – China coalition (with completely no historical basis at all apart from both countries hating soviet union)… pretty please with cherry on top?
Hunter7541
November 18, 2016 at 8:44 pmMadMat, do you guys at Eugene already know what coalitions each nation will have, if any?
[EUG]MadMat
November 18, 2016 at 8:52 pmWe do. 🙂
Bad Humour
November 18, 2016 at 9:39 pmwoa a bit too much information… You wouldn’t want to spoil it 😛
adix
November 18, 2016 at 9:40 pmSo, Eugen, you give us the good news that there will ba also new REDFOR coalition/s?
AegisWolf
November 19, 2016 at 10:02 amYou are going to teach us how to pronounce all these correctly, right?
MadMat?
Right?
Tatu Karlsson
November 19, 2016 at 10:41 amHow about Laskuvarjojääkärikoulu (Parajäger school) and Sukeltajakoulu (Diver school)? Laskuvarjojääkärit (parajägers) and Taistelusukeltajat (combat divers) are best special forces Finland has to offer along with Erikoisrajajääkärit. Tbh, both of the special forces I mentioned are far more famous than Erikoisrajajääkärit. Laskuvarjojääkärit belongs to the ground forces, Taistelusukeltajat to the navy and Erikoisrajajääkärit to the border control (which isn’t tecnically a part of FDF). Also, I would recommend that Erikoisrajajääkärit could have rk62 along with a rocket launcher and a sniper rifle. It’s far more realistic than Jatimatic. Laskuvarjojääkärit would use similar equipment, but they would be transported by helicopters instead of cars. Taistelusukeltajat would enter the battle on a boat or by car.
Please, concider these ideas. It would be awesome!
Kamov
November 20, 2016 at 1:54 amNow, it wouldn’t be very realistic to include the hornet, since the west wouldn’t have sold it during wartime to Finland, obviously. Now, there was a competition between the F-18 and the Mig-29 back in the day, so the Mig-29 would have been chosen instead. However, i don’t mind too much having the F-18. Gives quite an interesting scenario having an Redfor high-end ASF.
Robbini
November 20, 2016 at 1:52 pmBeing part of the Coastal Jaegers myself, specifically a medic assigned to the Coastal Robot Missile Platoon, i’m curious about the naval aspect.
Although it’s unlikely that you’ll actually implement the idea of infantry-carried missiles being able to disable ships by targeting critical points, i’m wondering about the amphibious & naval transport vehicles for Finland. Although the idea of the CRM was probably not very known during the Cold Wars Era, the missiles currently in use are a variant of the Spike missiles, only they’re a lot bigger than the Pst / Anti-tank missiles that you’re saying will be put in the pack.
FulmenTheFinn
November 21, 2016 at 11:45 amWhy is the Jatimatic in the game? This SMG was not even considered to be adopted by the FDF because it was crap. They basically did some tests with it on a firing range to see if it was any good, that’s all.
[EUG]MadMat
November 21, 2016 at 11:48 amBecause we needed another, more recent, SMG to represent a weapon upgrade over the WW2 Suomi-KP.
And what more Finnish than the Jatimatic? 🙂
Many of our SF units are equiped with off-the-shelves weaponry even some they didn’t use IRL.
FulmenTheFinn
November 21, 2016 at 12:18 pmWhy would the FDF upgrade to a weapon not suitable as a service weapon? That’s not an upgrade, that’s a downgrade.
IRL the KP-31 was replaced by the Rk-62 (and in some cases eventually Rk-95) assault rifle. The SMG upgrade was the MP5 (KP-2000 in FIN), but it’s not really used outside special forces and both civil and military police. I don’t know the exact adoption date, but I assume it’s around 2000 (hence the name), so it might be too late for the FDF deck.
I’d just use the Rk-62 in the game as it’s the actual RL upgrade from the Kp-31.
HunterHellquist
November 21, 2016 at 1:05 pmThat is all fine and so, but please, WE NEED BIGGER MAPS!!!
Some new small and some maps capable of 5vs5 or 6vs6 would make it just epic. Also, neutral FOBs woub be nice targets for conquering.
j.n.t.k
November 21, 2016 at 4:50 pmmadmat : Wargame: Red Dragon Nation Pack in the circle Votes, will eugen make all of those nation in the circle vote after sell 2nations redfore?
j.n.t.k
November 21, 2016 at 4:59 pmhttps://eugensystems.com/the-votes-are-in-and-the-next-wargame-red-dragon-nation-pack-is/
[EUG]MadMat
November 21, 2016 at 5:14 pmI’m sorry but … what’s a “circle vote”?
j.n.t.k
November 21, 2016 at 5:45 pmin word “circle vote ”
i mean picture of circle in blog (The votes are in! And the next Wargame Red Dragon Nation Pack is… )
it have 1 israel 2 yugoslavia 3 finland and other nation pack
after eugen sell yugo and finland pack after that will eugen make the other nation come to sell more ?
[EUG]MadMat
November 21, 2016 at 5:54 pmAs stated before, we have no plan beyond the release of the next Nation Pack.
Miika
November 21, 2016 at 8:22 pmJust a small request: Can you add name Miika in the finnish soldier names. I am Erikoisrajajääkäri myself and would love to just play around guys that have my name 😛 I know probably every kid online asks you these things but I had to ask to get a better chance for it to happen.
[EUG]MadMat
November 21, 2016 at 10:50 pmAs we’ve done with every other nation ingame, we will soon create an “engagement list” for Finnish & Yugoslav nationals to “enlist” and give their names for squad leaders ingame.
Miika Oinonen
November 21, 2016 at 11:26 pmAfter making this comment I checked the stream video and noticed you mentioning that, thanks for mentioning it here also 🙂 as I started playing Wargames at the start of end year I wasnt really active on the forums yet, before I heard Finland is coming in to the game so this leads to the question : Are we going to find the “engagement list” on some specific section of the forums or on some other place?
Apofis
November 21, 2016 at 8:53 pmI’m fairly understand why you have put Finland in REDFOR and as a mainly REDFOR player i’m happy about it. But can u explain me how FIN got spikes and TOWS because it’s not like F18C (which is also strange cuz it was new air craft for that time …) , ok they bought it and they have it and adjust it to russian missiles and bombs. Because i hardly belive that they could make these stuff on license or copy it … If they are considered as enemy to BLUEFORS they wouldnt get new supplies from them…
adix
November 22, 2016 at 1:17 amWell, I must say..great job….Aviation is a great mix..having Il 28, Hawk, Mig 21, Mig 29, J 35 and F 18C together….great, even if air-to-ground armamanet is not so developed, but..this is the reality…also great, all family Patria is there…with guns, missiles and machineguns….nice!…Konkurs&Spike…Crotale&BUK&IGLA&Marksman&ZU 23 interesting mix..strong MLRS artillery….. and, important to mention, the development of finnish T 72, BTR 50 with gun and new units like the iconic STUG.Appreciate also that you didn’t let the Finnland without choppers….that MI 8 with unguided missiles and guns..great job as well as reccon helos and that tiny sting HH10.One after all, from a country without spectaculous military equipment…you obtain a pretty new collection and combination of force. Waiting for Yogoslavia twitch and hopeing in a soon release of this double deck.
Awesomer
November 22, 2016 at 10:02 pmHi MadMat,
Eugen has done some excellent work. Just out of curiosity, will you guys be fixing some of the other model bugs/inconsistencies with the other nations as well? I believe that Narcissistic Black has posted a page on this.
Thanks!
Glucozer
November 23, 2016 at 10:07 amI hope Eugen make more national of RED for balance game 😉
Iran, Vietnam, India,….
Alex
November 25, 2016 at 1:42 pmWill there be any updates regarding navy?
Xeno
November 27, 2016 at 3:39 ammmmhh…antitank rifles
I love you Eugen
Can you add LAV-ADS and Sprut-SD please? Even as a small DLC, I’d buy it, and pretty much everyone else would as well
FulmenTheFinn
November 29, 2016 at 8:47 pmHello again Eugen.
Having recently watched a preview video of the Finnish deck, and being Finnish myself, I feel obliged to correct a few errors I noticed, so here goes:
-The EuroSpike in Finland is known as PstOhj 2000, not the 94. They were aquired by Finland in 2000-2002. I mentioned this first because I myself am by training an AT NCO trained with this weapons system in the FDF.
There is actually no such thing as the PstOhj 94, the predecessors to the PstOhj 2000 were the PstOhj 82 and PstOhj 83.
-As I’ve mentioned before, the Jatimatic was not a suitable service weapon and would likely never have been used by the FDF. In its place should be the Rk-62 or the Suomi-KP/31 if you really want an SMG.
-A couple of minor misc ones that are irrelevant like CV jeeps having giant roundels (never seen this in IRL or in 80s/90s FDF photos and I doubt they would’ve had giant roundels in combat) and the Sturmi year being wrong (probably a few other units too) – should be 1943. Again, these are pretty irrelevant errors.
My biggest gripe is that if the PstOhj 2000 is in the game, then we should also get things like the PKM MG (aquired in the late 90s), MP5 SMG (aquired in the late 90s or 2000) and perhaps more meaty stuff like the Leopard 2A4 tank (aquired in 2003) and CV9030 IFV (aquired in 2004).
Beyond that I think the overall research is pretty good if not excellent. Well done Eugen developers.
PS. Out of interest, since you put the Sturmi in the game, why no Panzer IV or other pre-T-55 tanks? 🙂